Looking Back at Arkham City...COMBAT

[QuickSnaps]

What you liked? The speed of the combat.
What you think improved? The speed and efficiency of the combat.
What your favorite part of combat was? The special combo take down being able to take even the most heavily armed enemies out with one move.
What you didn't like? The fact you had to start over your combo streak if you got hit.
What could be improved? Action reaction timing.
What new features you would like to see? Calling in an extra character for support when you are on the verge of death. (Only Challenge Maps.)
Any Arkham Asylum/Arkham City comparisons? Arkham Asylum's combat was pretty good, Arkham City's was amazing.

[yabab]

What you liked?
* Batman's expanded 'Strike' combat moves; (Spinning Aerial Kick, Circular Back Neck Grab)
* Brutal Counter moves;
* The separation of Blades wielding thugs from the Blocking thugs;
* Having to deal with blade attacks in a different way than standard attacks;
* Unique attack animations for when Batman is close to a wall;
* Freeflow Focus;
* Beatdowns;

What you think improved?
Arkham Asylum had a very limited variety of enemies, 'City definitely solved that issue;

What your favourite part of combat was?
Having to counter multiple strikes from Ra's Al Ghul during his Boss Fight. I was kinda disappointed I didn't really have to time my counters to his animations though - that would've been a nice addition.

What you didn't like?
* Lack of 'options' to engage a small group (3-4) of armed enemies in close combat, sometimes one doesn't wish to hide in the darkness!
* Forcing the player out of Freeflow Focus when using a gadget after an upgrade - this made the upgrade a rather tactical choice of either getting it or not: the game should allow players to choose either to use a powered version of the gadget attack or not after the upgrade. It's beneficial to stay in it and it's something the player can do before the upgrade, no reason to take that away.

What could be improved?
Well, I think everything which already exists is pretty well executed in terms of design, only technical aspects could be enhanced - like better synchronization of attack animations and counter strikes, inclusion of more combat animations. I would only want to see more features.

What new features you would like to see?
OK, now these two are VERY important: The Batman: Arkham series has the best overall combat system of the industry right now; this is taking into account not only complexity, but also accessibility! This is cool and all, but one can't help but notice the limitations of the combat system you so brilliantly developed over the course of two different games; The patterns are there.

* With the combat system as it is, there's no challenge to be had in a one-on-one combat encounter: that's not always the case in the comics, Batman sometimes has some pretty awesome fights in which he doesn't need to down a bunch of thugs, sometimes there's just one very good villain like Hush or even Ra's Al Ghul himself. Hell, even 'The Dark Knight Returns' has a pretty good one-on-one fight sequence where Batman realizes meeting strength with strength is not a good idea for him. It's nice to feel that the combat zone is like an operating table and that I'm the surgeon!

* It's also true that combat challenges are only truly fluid when played in wide-open, single-leveled rooms with no obstacles - we all remember the gameplay flow disaster that Shock and Awe was back in Arkham Asylum. I think the game's flow would greatly benefit from allowing the player to kick thug *** while jumping over tables, circling around chairs, jumping through windows and over railings - The key here is not only enabling the transition between different rooms or parts of the scenario, divided by walls or obstacles, during a Freeflow combo; but truly supporting and integrating these transitions into the main combat gameplay loop.

Any Arkham Asylum/Arkham City comparisons?
The game feels better, is more challenging and better paced. Overall, great overhaul of this amazing game experience.

[batdomination]

@yabab: i love the idea of jumping over chairs and obstacles, and having to go through windows or doors to get to the next area to beat up the thugs in the other room, but it would have to give you a little bit more time for you to jump over the obstacles so you dont lose your combo score. Also, the environment should have hazards that you have to dodge so you dont get hit, like the jokers train, and it should have other hazards you can control to hurt enemies.

[yabab]

@yabab: i love the idea of jumping over chairs and obstacles, and having to go through windows or doors to get to the next area to beat up the thugs in the other room, but it would have to give you a little bit more time for you to jump over the obstacles so you dont lose your combo score. Also, the environment should have hazards that you have to dodge so you dont get hit, like the jokers train, and it should have other hazards you can control to hurt enemies.

Yeah, adding more time to the combo's break timer is one way of enabling this kind of behavior during combat, another way is to freeze the timer altogether if the player is using the 'evade' action: this would be specially simple since it is a behavior already integrated into the game - have you noticed how you can keep redirecting thugs as much as you want and the combo never breaks? - the idea is doing something similar with environment obstacles to allow the player to fight in tight or cramped rooms, eliminating this pattern of always having to fight in a wide-open room free of obstacles.

[007JediKnight]

Yeah, adding more time to the combo's break timer is one way of enabling this kind of behavior during combat, another way is to freeze the timer altogether if the player is using the 'evade' action: this would be specially simple since it is a behavior already integrated into the game - have you noticed how you can keep redirecting thugs as much as you want and the combo never breaks? - the idea is doing something similar with environment obstacles to allow the player to fight in tight or cramped rooms, eliminating this pattern of always having to fight in a wide-open room free of obstacles.

Personally, I think Rocksteady have already nailed combat (and Batman's combat) with the FreeFlow Combat System (when you apply it to Batman & Catwoman. Robin's and Nightwing's FreeFlow-Combat still have kinks to work out) [in Arkham Asylum], and [only] made it even better in Arkham City.

they shouldn't fix what isn't broken. (but yes, they should improve the FreeFlow Combat for Nightwing and Robin. they take WAYYY too long to Evade, Counter, and Stun (and sometimes Strike), and they also take WAYYY too long to go from one [combat] move to another[, leaving them wide open for a punch or kick or counter-attack or any other kind of attack from enemies and/or thugs]. Batman would have taught them better than that[, and constantly been on their *** about taking too long to go from one move to another]).

[capedcrusader67]

[QUOTE=yabab;273773]* With the combat system as it is, there's no challenge to be had in a one-on-one combat encounter: that's not always the case in the comics, Batman sometimes has some pretty awesome fights in which he doesn't need to down a bunch of thugs, sometimes there's just one very good villain like Hush or even Ra's Al Ghul himself. Hell, even 'The Dark Knight Returns' has a pretty good one-on-one fight sequence where Batman realizes meeting strength with strength is not a good idea for him. It's nice to feel that the combat zone is like an operating table and that I'm the surgeon!

* It's also true that combat challenges are only truly fluid when played in wide-open, single-leveled rooms with no obstacles - we all remember the gameplay flow disaster that Shock and Awe was back in Arkham Asylum. I think the game's flow would greatly benefit from allowing the player to kick thug *** while jumping over tables, circling around chairs, jumping through windows and over railings - The key here is not only enabling the transition between different rooms or parts of the scenario, divided by walls or obstacles, during a Freeflow combo; but truly supporting and integrating these transitions into the main combat gameplay loop."

That was beautiful. Amen. :P With your second point, I'd also like to see some environmental damage, where Batman uses objects/landscape to take down thugs when he fights.

[batdomination]

Yes you got it right. One on one fights and using the environment are the next step for combat, and it should make the next game even more exciting because of it.

I've also noticed that it goes into slow motion a lot more, and has a lot of camera cuts. I think it would be better if they did that a lot less often, so the fighting feels fast paced and doesnt slow down. Because when i do a strike, i find myself waiting a lot to hit the attack button again because it is taking long for batman to hit the guy. It shouldnt slow down so much, maybe do slow mo every once in a while.

[yabab]

I would also like to see a Looking Back at Arkham City...Exploration or Movement topic -- lots of things to talk about those aspects of the game as well.

I'd like to drop my two cents on Gliding, Movement and other things!

[007JediKnight]

i don't mean "christopher nolan" realistic
just don't cross the limits of the human abilities
what's next, batman will be able to shoot laser from his eyes?
ya know what i mean?

talking about "Christopher Nolan"-realistic, i really understand why Sefton Hill chose to make Two-Face look like he did in "Batman: Arkham City" (ie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqi3QXYohSc), but you literally (ie. you [all] at Rocksteady) made it look like if Harvey Dent (in the Arkhamverse) became Two-Face by fire (ie. by how he became Two-Face in Nolan's "The Dark Knight" movie. getting soaked by gasoline on one side of his face, body, and clothing, and then that side of his face, body, and clothing, catching fire) instead of how he actually became Two-Face (not just in the comics, but in the Arkhamverse) (and how it says in the "Biography" part of the game (and how some thugs (especially the Two-Face ones) say that he became Two-Face)): by Sal Maroni throwing acid in his face (and Harvey, trying to avoid the attack, tried to evade the acid, but [it] ended up landing on the left half[/left side] of his face).

i really think that the way Rocksteady designed Two-Face in this game (ie. his look[/appearance]), and how they say he (ie. Harvey Dent) became Two-Face (ie. in the "Biography" section of the "Batcomputer Data"), is contradictory, and should be fixed. (ie. either Harvey Dent's design should be changed, or, Rocksteady should change the info in the Batcomputer data. However, since Rocksteady is basing this design, and the information of their characters, ie. the characters in the Arkhamverse, from what happened in the comics (ie. Barbara Gordon being shot by Joker and becoming Oracle. as an example), Rocksteady should change the design of Two-Face to more reflect that he (Harvey Dent) became Two-Face by being thrown acid in his face, instead of by the left half of his body, and the left half of his clothes, catching fire, and therefore, being all scarred and burned up (to say nothing of his left arm, face, his left shoe, his left pant-leg, the left sleeve of his suit-jacket, etc)).


P.S. Rocksteady's design for Two-Face, [that you can see] in the "Biography" section of the "Batman: Arkham Asylum" game (and even, the "concept art" for Two-Face, that you can see in the "Catwoman's execution" and "Two-Face and his gang" concept art in the "Batman: Arkham City" game), is a GREAT design for Two-Face :-) .

i've been doing some more research and reading up on Two-Face since i wrote this post, and apparently he had his accident that turned him into Two-Face (we all know that story. Sal Maroni throwing acid at him and he (Harvey) trying to avoid the acid and it ending up [landing] on the left side of his face), and then some time after that (don't know how long) he apparently had plastic-surgery that fixed his face, and seemingly undid (later we found out it didn't fully eliminate it) the Two-Face persona from Harvey Dent. but then afterwards (don't know how much time later) Harvey got caught in an explosion that apparently re-did the damage on the left half of his face, and made the Two-Face persona re-emerge. but apparently in a more permanent fashion this time.

i don't know if the Arkhamverse Two-Face has had this explosion happen to him (ie. the explosion that re-emerged Two-Face), but if it did, then kudos to Rocksteady for designing this Two-Face (ie. their Two-Face, that appears in Arkham City (the videogame, not the place)) the way they did.

[yabab]

For anyone interested in new mechanics, features and possible new additions to the next Arkham game, which maybe will feature an open-world Gotham City =D, maybe you'll be interested in taking a look at this: Vigilante Gameplay